Interview with Swans, 1987

Introduction


This post is dedicated to my good friend Steve Morrison, who sadly passed away suddenly in April 2023. Steve was a lifelong Swans fan. Back in the ‘80s, as well as Swans, he was into bands who were ‘new on the scene’ at the time, like Big Black, Head Of David, The Bambi Slam and Sonic Youth, as well as worshipping Scottish duo The Cocteau Twins and nurturing a fascination for US musical legends like Patti Smith, The Velvet Underground, The Stooges, Television and Suicide. We started a fanzine together in summer 1986 in Aberdeen, Scotland, with the catchy name of ‘Positive Noise’, so called because we thought that the music press were often too critical in their treatment of bands and music, so the title was a reaction against negative reviews, the ‘noise’ part capturing the main type of bands we wanted to include and referring to what we might generate in terms of content and buzz. The idea was that those actually involved in the bands and organisations would write articles themselves, offering a first-hand perspective.



Steve was a collector and die-hard music enthusiast, a musician and a writer. He wrote to labels like Blast First and they sent him records to review. The first release reviewed in ‘Positive Noise’ was a 4-song 12” EP by Big Stick – ‘Shoot The President’, ‘Drag Racing’, ‘I Look Like Shit’ and the classic ‘Jesus Was Born (On An Indian Reservation)’, released as Blast First BFFP 6. Later issues would feature, amongst much more, reviews of Sonic Youth, Ciccone Youth, Head Of David, Big Black and a piece on Blast First Records. 

Positive Noise No. 2, which hit the shelves in October 1986 for the princely sum of 20p, had a page titled ‘Racket U.S.A.’, a pun on the electronic gem ‘Rocket U.S.A.’ by legendary New York City duo Suicide. It started with a review by Steve M of Swans LP ‘Holy Money’, released in March 1986, and their 12” EP ‘A Screw’, released in May 1986, both on the label K.422 Records, transcribed as follows:

S.W.A.N.S. 12” A Screw (K.422 Records KDE 312)
S.W.A.N.S. l.p. Holy Money (K.422 Records KCC 3)

“Swansongs are as blunt as a booted foot in the face. They are so intense that they make you reel from side to side: A to B to A to B. This is music that you really feel: it bruises the brain and breaks bones, and it also proves the point that silence is as much a part of the structure of music as noise. Swansilence is what makes them so much more powerful than any hardcore band: noise…silence…noise…etc. Repetition: like your heartbeat or your breathing, or your sex. Listen to these in the dark and add a battered better meaning to the phrase “night-clubbing”.”


Racket U.S.A. – Steve’s original typed review of ‘A Screw’ and ‘Holy Money’ from ‘Positive Noise’

Jarboe is credited with vocals, backing vocals and ‘mirage’ on ‘A Screw’, having joined the band in 1985.

‘Positive Noise’ No. 4 featured a review of ‘One Thousand Years’ by Skin, later to rename themselves World Of Skin, a collaboration between Michael Gira and Jarboe, emanating from Swans, their main band at the time. This song would open their debut album ‘Blood, Women, Roses’, which would be released in 1987. This is the review by Steve M, or ‘The Very Reverend ALBERT ALBINO’ as he inexplicably called himself in this issue, transcribed as follows:

SKIN “One Thousand Years” (Product Inc. PROD 3.12) 12”

“Skin contains Swans’ vital organs: the brain (Michael Gira) and the heart (Jarboe) and this, their first release, merely scratches the surface of what’s to come over the next few months (2 albums and 2 more singles). “One Thousand Years” and “My Own Hands” highlight for the first time the haunting vocals of Jarboe, performance artist turned musician with the world’s most powerful rock band, Swans. Her voice is thick as blood, and it leads us through a forest of strings, accompanied by the presence of Gira – in the lyrics, in the slow rhythms and in the overall atmosphere of the music. The most beautiful and near-classical record this side of the Cocteaus, it’s black as hell and white as the driven snow.”


Steve’s (aka The Very Reverend ALBERT ALBINO) original typed review of ‘One Thousand Years’

So, those reviews give you a good idea what Steve Morrison thought of Swans and Skin/World Of Skin. He was dedicated enough to their music and adventurous enough to reach out to the creators themselves, by initiating this interview, which, to my knowledge, has never seen the public light of day, until now. It is a gem, a time capsule. Thank you for sharing this with me to publish Steve – You knew it would take me a long time to get to ‘S’ in my rock music A-Z and my original intention was to include the interview in my review of ‘The Burning World’ album by Swans, but, looking at it now, I think it warrants a piece on its own. I’m just sorry that you are no longer here to see it in print…

Steve Morrison – Interview with Michael Gira and Jarboe, Swans, 1987 (Questions prepared on 3rd May 1987 – pre-internet – This was a handwritten postal interview!)

Questions: Steve Morrison
Answers: Michael Gira/Jarboe

Q1: Is Skin a personal reaction against the intensity of Swans?
A1: No, we both had simply been planning, for a long time, to do music centred around the voice, the words, the song. “Blood Women Roses” is the first product of that effort. Besides, why should we “react against”?

Q2: Is Skin a deliberate move by yourselves to be more accessible/commercial?
A2: I don’t know about the words “accessible, commercial”. The idea is simply to make music that enters the mind a little easier than our past efforts with Swans. These are songs.

Q3: Would you describe your music as being avante-garde or as being ‘mainstream’?
A3: I wouldn’t describe it.

Q4: What are the underlying themes behind the Skin project?
A4: Love, murder, lust, incest.

Q5: Where does the inspiration to make such powerful music come from?
A5: —————————–

Q6: Are all the songs based on personal experience or do you also turn to stories and other people’s experiences (like Big Black do)?
A5: I don’t know anything about other groups. They (the songs) are situations described in an hopefully abstract fashion, so as to afford the listener the opportunity to identify with them or use them as a stepping off point for imagination and/or desire. It’s no one’s business if they are or are not autobiographical to begin with.

Q7: Do people treat you as being extreme because of the nature of your music?
A7: [answer scored out] No

Q8: Will the forthcoming Swans material reflect the subtlety of Skin?
A8: Yes, indeed, as well as the continuing subtlety of Swans.

Q9: Have you ever been involved in any other mediums and if not would you like to become so?
A9: Jarboe has been an actress and I have been a writer (of dubious merit).

Q10: What plans have you for the future?
A10: More work, new Swans double album out in September. It’s called ‘Children Of God’ and it ranges from soft songs to epic hard guitar. We tour for 6 months to support it, through Europe, Britain, States, Japan.

Best, M. Gira and Jarboe

The original handwritten interview questions by Steve M and answers by Michael G and Jarboe


Stephen Allan Gray Morrison (25th October 1965 – 29th April 2023)

Jarboe La Salle Devereaux (birth date unknown – )

Michael Rolfe Gira (19th February 1954 – )

References and photos:
1. Handwritten interview questions: Steve Morrison
2. Handwritten interview answers from Michael Gira and Jarboe: Steve Morrison
3. Swans review, originally published in ‘Positive Noise’ No. 2, October 1986
4. Skin/World Of Skin review, originally published in ‘Positive Noise’ No. 4
5. ‘Positive Noise’ No 1 – scans
6. Swans ‘Children Of God’ CD cover – author’s own collection
7. Jarboe photo circa 2020: Jarboe selects tracks from her back catalogue – The Wire
8. Michael Gira photo circa 2022 Michael Gira Concert Tickets: 2023 Live Tour Dates | Bandsintown
9. Michael Gira and Jarboe 1987 – Pinterest

Jarboe live 2022, Michael Gira live 2022, Swans live 2023

Jarboe live in Newcastle 2022, Michael Gira live in Glasgow 2022 and Swans live in Glasgow 2023
This was part of some kind of pilgrimage for me, four acts of a very strange play, acted out over ten months, with its roots deep in the past and focus on an unknown dystopian future…To understand it, we have to go back to the Swans period between the late 1980s and the late 1990s, a time when performance artist Jarboe was Michael Gira’s co-collaborator and lover. From ‘Children Of God’ through to ‘Soundtracks For The Blind’, the fires of creativity were burning brightly in New York City. Jarboe and Gira’s ‘side project’, initially called Skin, then World Of Skin, also produced some wonderful material, the 1990 album ‘Ten Songs For Another World’ being my favourite. It’s a cornucopia that I often revisit, for musical and spiritual nourishment…Here is my recollection of a timeline of a series of somewhat disparate, but somehow connected, events that took me from autumn 2022 through to the end of summer 2023, a journey that takes us to post-industrial landscapes on rivers running through northern cities…

When you set out, you don’t always know where you’re going or where you’re going to end up, do you? It’s the evening of 2nd November 2022 and I’m messaging my good friend Steve M, a lifelong Swans fan, and there’s a germ of an idea forming:
“Hi Steve, Just listening to Jozef Van Wissem and Jarboe ‘Vox Populi, Vox Dei’ and watching the dark video – up your street I think…Might take a trip down to Newcastle to see them at The Lubber Fiend next Friday. Also love Jozef’s collaboration with Jim Jarmusch on the ‘Only Lovers Left Alive’ soundtrack. E x”

“…Now on to P Emerson Williams who is supporting Jarboe and Jozef on tour – pretty cool, dark stuff…”

With some encouragement from Steve, talking of Van Wissem’s musical palindromes performed on the lute and the fact that they would form an interesting combination with Jarboe – “She’s still got an amazing voice. Sx” – the idea became a reality: “Bought tickets for Jarboe…Looking forward to a night of culture! Might take some stuff in case she’s up for signing, then get Michael Gira to sign it when I see him!” Well, a sneaky kind of way of getting the two legends back together, something that would be very unlikely to happen in real life – Ahh, the best laid plans…


Jarboe, P Emerson Williams and Jozef Van Wissem live at The Lubber Fiend, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Friday 11th November 2022

It’s Friday 11th November 2022 and I’m in Newcastle, north-east England, with my wife, who I have persuaded to come with me to see musical legend Jarboe. The Lubber Fiend is an obscure, ‘right on’ but very ‘rough ’n’ ready’ community venue in the heart of ‘the toon’, across the main traffic artery, which is tough to navigate as a pedestrian, then down a dimly-lit back street.

This is what we were promised:
“Jarboe draws from a variety of sources: childhood in the Mississippi delta and New Orleans, life in NYC’s east village during the post no-wave scene as member of the band Swans, university studies in literature and theatre, global travels, and a history of extensive recordings, collaborations (Attila Csihar, Blixa Bargeld, J.G. Thirlwell, Merzbow, PanSonic, Chris Connelly, Neurosis and many others), and performances (clubs, theaters, art galleries, cathedrals, festivals, live radio, television, film).

Jarboe’s voice and music is known for bold experimental as well as melodic diversity and expression. Over the course of her life through efforts in past and present disciplines, Jarboe explores the rebuilding / reinventing of identity and the elemental structures of personae.

Jozef van Wissem is an avant-garde composer and lutenist playing his (their) all black, one-of-a-kind custom-made baroque lute all around the world. The titles and the nature of his (their) works often have a Christian-mystical appeal and the music he (they) creates is simply timeless. In 2013 van Wissem won the Cannes Soundtrack Award at the Cannes Film Festival for Jim Jarmusch’s “Only Lovers Left Alive “. In December 2017 Jozef van Wissem was invited to perform the madrigal depicted in Caravaggio’s painting The Lute Player (1596) at the Hermitage museum of Saint Petersburg.” [5.]

It’s a dimly-lit venue, offering a choice of non-gender-specific toilets, and mostly empty in the main performance space, with not many places to sit. We perch on a bench near the side wall and wait. There’s a thin, wasted-looking older guy wearing a ‘Filth’ t-shirt, a reminder of when Swans were famously noisy, industrial – back in the 1980s…Eventually, the stage is taken by a tall enigmatic character with long hair, dressed in black with a crucifix round his neck and a black lute in their hand, inscribed with ‘ex mortis’ – perhaps some padre from the church of the forgotten? Perhaps, they are (the non-binary) Jozef Van Wissem, ‘liberator of the lute’. Ordinarily, Jozef may have been the ‘warm-up’ or ‘support’ act, but they have more of the persona of the undead, appropriate given their association with vampires – having written a soundtrack for the 1922 German silent expressionist film ‘Nosferatu’ and having collaborated with Jim Jarmusch on the soundtrack for the 2013 inventive film about musical vampires ‘Only Lovers Left Alive’. They stayed mostly silent between tracks, staring into the crowd, playing repetitive, minimalist pieces on the classical instrument of their choice. It was a mesmerising, unforgettable performance. Jozef was happy to greet fans after the show at the merchandise stall, and sign my CD booklet for ‘Only Lovers…’ as well as ‘Nosferatu – Call Of The Deathbird’, which I duly purchased on the night. I asked them about his lute and they said it had been hand-made, but that their lute maker of choice had gone blind and they’d had to find another – oh, the pain and sadness of this life!
Blow-by-blow accounts were duly delivered to my friend:
“Hi Steve, At The Lubber Fiend – just saw Jozef Van Wissem play, met him (them) and got a couple of things signed. Jarboe on next. E”

Gira and Jarboe were two Swans who, unlike their Anitadaen namesakes, did not mate for life, having gone their separate ways in the late nineteen-nineties…Both forged driven careers thereafter, both as solo artists and collaborators, the former fronting Angels Of Light and reinvented line-ups of Swans, the latter mainly concentrating on her own projects and singing with bands as diverse as Blackmouth and Neurosis. I could have been forgiven for expecting Jarboe to sing for at least part of her set, as her 2020 release ‘A Tupla’ contained plenty of her distinctive vocals, and even the video trailer for the tour included her singing tones, but it was not to be that night in Newcastle, as the alternative diva stuck to the medium of spoken word…
This was my somewhat damning verdict of the Jarboe’s performance, in the aftermath:

“Jarboe was pretty awful – no interaction, no singing, just talking…and the guitarist on stage with her (may have been P Emerson Williams) wasn’t up to much either so we walked out before the end. Never mind, Jozef was good…”

As it turned out, my wife was less-than-impressed with Jarboe’s spoken word rhetoric over the droning tones of P Emerson Williams electric-guitar-and-effects-driven soundscape and neither was I, so we left part way through that performance:

“No singing to the point we left for sure. I had an open mind because I knew there would be an element of ‘performance art’, but it just wasn’t enjoyable. Her ‘stage entrance’ was bizarre too – she wheeled a cabin bag round the front of the stage as if she’d just got off a flight, or been shopping – no drama or introduction…I had also asked the ‘merch’ guy whether Jarboe would be doing signing/greeting and he sounded doubtful so I didn’t think it was worth hanging around.”

Michael Gira live at Cottiers, Glasgow, Friday 25th November 2022

A couple of weeks have passed since the Jarboe gig…I’ve persuaded my friend D that it’s a good idea to go and see Michael Gira, the creative force behind Swans, even though he’s not a fan of ‘art rock’, ‘noise rock’, however you would wish to pigeonhole the band’s best-known creative output. D is, however, a fan of folk and folk-rock, and this will be a guy on stage with just an acoustic guitar and his voice, so how far away from that can it be? D is a good friend and we are faithful gig companions, enjoying catching up on life and exploring new experiences. We meet in the transformed Queen Street Station, now a glass bubble with panoramic views out to George Square and the grid pattern cityscape that is Glasgow City Centre. It’s there we catch the train out to the suburb of Milngavie (the ‘avie’ pronounced ‘eye’), now a commuter town about ten kilometres from the heart of the metropolis.

We walked the route along the Allander Water then the River Kelvin between Milngavie and Glasgow which was billed as ‘feels surprisingly rural when walked from North to South, with the hustle and bustle of the city becoming more apparent the further along you go…Expect a mixture of earth paths, pavements, cycle tracks and some mud!’ That was about right in reality…We didn’t encounter a soul. Call me paranoid, but I wore steel-toe-capped boots and carried a disguised weapon – a fold-up black umbrella! It was Scotland of course, so the ubiquitous rain jacket, cap and sunglasses were all necessary apparel to have! From the pastoral landscape along the Kelvin, we eventually approached the edge of the city, heading off the riverside path and wandering through housing estates, past shopping complexes deeper into the urban sprawl, targeting Maryhill train station but ending up at Summerston in the rain. The train took us into the west end, bedraggled hungry walkers with muddy boots to be wiped off, to become semi-respectable culture vultures, devourers of authentic Chinese cuisine and gig-goers…

It was a tour of former churches…Gira had played St. Patrick’s Catholic Church in Belfast, Northern Ireland on 23rd, St. Ann’s Church in Dublin, Ireland, on 24th before coming here to Cottiers, the former 19th century Dowanhill Parish Church in Glasgow.

The month before, wandering the streets of Oslo, Norway, I came across posters suitably pasted on to the graffitied hoarding of a construction site, with the black and white face of Gira obscured by his hands, finger poking into his eye, either in some kind of despair or just a way of hiding a face he’d rather we’d not see. These were advertising his solo performance at the Kulturkirken Jakob in the country’s capital, ironically the city home to the black metal movement which spawned a spate of church burnings and a catalogue of recordings sold out of the basement of the ‘Helvete’ (Norwegian for ‘Hell’) record shop which was run by ‘Euronymous’, guitar player for black metal pioneers Mayhem, and infamously stabbed to death by fellow black metal musician Varg Vikernes, from Bergen. Whether Gira is familiar with the anti-Christian background to that alternative scene in Norway I do not know, but his choice of venues is likely to be more about atmosphere than any kind of statement.

It’s been Gira’s business plan typology over recent years – to play a solo tour and release limited edition ‘product’ through his vehicle, Young God Records, in order to generate cash to fund the recording and production of the next Swans album. ‘The Beggar’ was no exception. As well as this tour, Gira released the demo album ‘Is There Really a Mind?’ in February 2022.


Kristof Hahn’s support set was good – an unsettling feeling throughout, and Hahn’s stage demeanour plays to this (Gira later gives thanks to ‘that little ol’ Kristof Hahn’ – oh, how he joked : ). The Swans member revealed his slide guitar was tuned to the oboe part on ‘If There Is Something’ from the first Roxy Music album, then proceeded to play a sinister version of it! His ethereal soundscapes in this blue-lit spectral ecclesiastical architectural backdrop are a fine build-up for the stripped back sermons that are to come.



Michael Gira delivered a very intense performance, including songs from the soon-to-be released Swans album ‘The  Beggar’. Gira’s imposing persona on stage included policing those audience member who dared to try and photograph him – Those who were caught were offered a ‘Paddington stare’ and a ‘when you’re finished’ retort, as the artist cut off where he’d played to and waited for the interruption to cease before starting again.

Gira opened with ‘The Parasite’ and it was as if a very dark priest had taken to the lectern with leather-bound bible in hand to deliver an uncompromising sermon of doom. Online, there’s a recording of that song from the same tour that a fan sneaked from a gig in Italy (if Gira had seen them, they’d have been in trouble!) – It seemed so much scarier when watching Giral play it live in Glasgow…

He finished with ‘New Mind’, opener of Swans 1987 classic ‘Children Of God’ and ‘Blind’, from his 1995 solo album ‘Drainland’, both familiar to Swans fans, so a welcome treat to end with.

I was fortunate to meet Mr Gira after the show (both of us masked up) – as Steve said ‘He loves his fans’ – and he signed a number of CD booklets from my Swans collection that I had brought. Thanks Michael!

Likely Michael Gira setlist:
The Parasite
The Memorious
Unforming
The Beggar
When Will I Return? (Swans song)
Two Women (Angels of Light song)
New Mind (Swans song)
Blind (Swans song)

Saturday 29th April 2023 – Death of a friend…
I didn’t know it yet, but you were already dead, I messaged you about a crippled black phoenix, perhaps some kind of premonition…

Darkness is coming
The loneliness and despair
A long cold black night


A very sad day – My good friend since school days, Steve M, passed away suddenly in his home up north. A lifelong Swans fan, he was looking forward to the release of ‘The Beggar’ – It’s so strange to think that he will never hear it…We had messaged back and forth about last year’s Gira gig and the upcoming Swans tour. Jarboe and Michael Gira, if this reaches you by chance, you have lost one of your strongest and most loyal supporters…

Goodbye my old friend
Peace be with you in heaven
Rest after this life

Swans ‘The Beggar’, released on Friday 23rd June 2023
The long-awaited follow-up to 2019’s well-received opus ‘Leaving Meaning’ arrived on the planet…and, as I am ‘old school’ in preferring hard copy, complete with artwork that you can touch and booklets that you can read, the two-disc CD arrives through my letterbox, familiar in its cardboard and printed red graphic, similar to recent Swans packaging. As might have been predicted, the recordings of the songs are very different from the very bare bones of the versions performed by Gira back in November of the previous year, although the opening track ‘The Parasite’ was the opener of his set at Cottiers in Glasgow:

“Breathe my breath into your head
Righteous, pure and sour with death
Here I am, just empty skin
There is no way out, there is no way in

Feed on me, feed on me,
Feed on me now”

The five other members of the band that accompany Gira on this musical trip – Kristof Hahn, Larry Mullins, Dana Schechter, Christopher Pravdica and Phil Puleo – are augmented by a further five guest musicians, creating an eclectic, sometimes lush, sometimes psychedelic, sometimes swirling, sometimes rocking out, always engaging soundscape. Occasionally, the music sounds like Swans ‘of old’, as in ‘Los Angeles; City Of Death’, the pounding, insistent beat and backing vocals somewhat reminiscent of the Jarboe era. At times, this recording is absolutely sublime – just have a listen to ‘The Beggar Lover (Three)’ and see how those orchestral vocal parts move you…

‘The Beggar’ tracklisting:

Disc One
The Parasite
Paradise Is Mine
Los Angeles: City of Death
Michael Is Done
Unforming
The Beggar
No More of This
Ebbing
Why Can’t I Have What I Want Any Time That I Want?

Disc Two
The Beggar Lover (Three)
The Memorious

St. Luke’s website, Sunday 23rd July 2023
Fast forward to 23rd July 2023, and I’m looking forward to seeing Swans at St. Luke’s in Glasgow – I’ve checked their website and it irritates me enough to contact the venue:

“Having looked at the listing on your website, I would note that the information is out of date and misleading – The photo is from a much earlier incarnation of the band and includes Jarboe, who was a member from 1986 to 1997. The text is from the early days of the band and doesn’t refer at all to recent albums or the current lineup. Hasn’t the promoter or Michael Gira sent you a press pack?”

A friendly reply comes back saying that they’ll contact the promoter and will update soon, which takes place – Thanks Eilidh at St. Luke’s!

The listing is furnished with the current EU/UK tour poster and this inspiring description:

“Unleashing a tempest of raw, unbridled emotion, SWANS emerges as an enigmatic force in the realm of experimental rock. Formed in the early ’80s, this genre-defying band has been sculpting soundscapes that push the boundaries of music and delve into the depths of the human psyche. Their groundbreaking performances and hauntingly intense compositions have earned them a devoted global following, and on the 16th of August, they will take to the stage @ Saint Luke’s!

Led by the visionary Michael Gira, SWANS’ music is an ever-evolving journey, transcending traditional genre constraints. From their early post-punk origins to their ventures into industrial, avant-garde, and beyond, each phase has borne witness to their relentless exploration of sonic territories. Their live shows are immersive experiences, where the audience is plunged into a swirling vortex of sound and emotion, carried away on waves of unyielding intensity and catharsis.

With a penchant for hypnotic repetition, sweeping crescendos, and otherworldly harmonies, SWANS’ performances are known to leave audiences transfixed, their souls laid bare by the sheer force of the music. Unafraid to confront the darkest corners of human existence, their lyrics and sonic tapestries grapple with themes of love, pain, spirituality, and the human condition, stirring something primal within each listener.

SWANS’ visit to Saint Luke’s promises to be an extraordinary evening, where time will lose its meaning, and the boundaries between performer and audience will blur.” [4.]

Swans live at St. Luke’s, Glasgow, Wednesday 16th August 2023

The trip over was the wrong kind of eventful, as I had a few mishaps on the way, as I wrote in this haiku at the time:

Running for the train
Fell down then lost my wallet
Bad things come in threes…

Made it on to the train to Glasgow Queen Street, though…palms of my hands grazed, my leg hurts from the impact, feel shaken and bruised…

Going to Saint Luke’s Church
In the east end of Glasgow
A rare gig by Swans

St. Luke’s is just around the corner from the iconic Barrowlands, the ballroom-turned music venue that has hosted so many classic gigs and is so well-loved by many bands. From the path in front you can see one of the entrances to the Barrowland market, known locally as ‘The Barras’.

There’s a man sitting outside the venue on a bench smoking a fag (that’s British-English for ‘cigarette’ for the benefit of you North Americans out there). He looks a bit like Swans’ guitarist Kristof Hahn…Hold on, he is Swans guitarist Kristof Hahn! Being as I am, I decide to engage “I hear there’s a good band on tonight”, I call out to him, “Are you going to see them?” He gets up and walks over. “I hear they’re loud”, he says, smiling, “too loud for me”, he laughs, still puffing on his cigarette. The lady in the couple in front tries to take a surreptitious selfie with Hahn in it over her shoulder, much to the musician’s amusement, who joins them to chat and allow a proper photo. I ask Kristof about another tour of former churches and he says that, yes, this is something Mr. Gira requested of the promoters.
Support came from Norman Westberg, a case of ‘keep it in the family’, as the man himself is a former guitarist with Swans, during their incarnation from early eighties to early nineties and after they reformed in 2010. Outside, Kristof Hahn had corrected me when I mistakenly said ‘Westerberg’ to another fan asking who was supporting – must have been recalling musician Paul Westerberg. Norman Westberg also played on Jarboe’s solo recordings and offshoot projects from the band, a kind of musical glue for this disjointed sculpture that I am trying to concoct here. Norman is an enigmatic stage presence, using his guitar and effects to create hypnotic and ethereal soundscapes which form a perfect introduction to the evening.
Like the bird, there are many extinct species of Swans and some that are still living. Gira has previously said that he named the band after the bird, because their majestic look and ugly temperament seemed to suit at that time. Things develop over time, but another analogy is that swans look calm on the surface, whilst paddling hard beneath the water, which can be applied to the band’s live performance – even in the maelstrom of building a cacophony of sound, there appears to be calm, as there is in the eye of a hurricane, with Gira as shamanic conductor somehow completely at home raising his hands with his eyes closed, in a spiritual trance…

“He sounds a bit like Jim Morrison”, I remark to my friend D, as Gira dredges up memories of listening to ‘When The Music’s Over’ or ‘Celebration Of The Lizard’, perhaps some of the lyrical imagery reminiscent of The Lizard King’s poetic visions, but definitely in the tone of Gira’s voice and the way that he is barking out the words.

The band played four songs from new album ‘The Beggar’: ‘Ebbing’, ‘No More Of This’, ‘The Memorious’ and ‘The Beggar’, interspersed with three from the last release ‘Leaving Meaning’ – ‘The Hanging Man’, ‘Cathedrals Of Heaven’ and ‘Leaving Meaning’, along with ‘Introduction’ and ‘Birthing’. Sometimes it’s hard to remember which track they are playing, as the music drifts into freeform jam territory, the band zoning out as their conductor builds them up and eventually draws them to a close. It certainly feels very different to the chilled, spacey vibe of much of the recorded album ‘The Beggar’ but, with Swans, there has always been that distance between the studio product and what transpires on stage. It’s been a fitting end to Act Four of this lengthy and dysfunctional theatrical production, as we file out of the old church into an East End Glasgow night, D and I going our separate ways, east and north. After such an esoteric experience, the gritty real life walk back to Queen Street station takes on a dream-like quality. We’re coming to the end of my slightly psychotic, umbilical diary of musical memorabilia, filed in my mind under ‘Swans, experimental rock band from New York City’, days torn from pages in 2022 and 2023. It’s late on a Wednesday night but still there are people everywhere, ant-like in their scurrying around this electric-lit urban sprawl, comfort found in a rattling train compartment rocked into broken sleep as we head back east into the night…



Swans setlist:
Introduction
(with break before The Beggar)
The Beggar
The Hanging Man
Ebbing
The Memorious
Cathedrals of Heaven
No More of This
Leaving Meaning
(played in full with no break before Birthing)
Birthing

Swans personnel:
Michael Gira – vocals, acoustic guitar
Kristof Hahn – lap steel guitar
Larry Mullins – drums, orchestral percussion, Mellotron, vibes, keyboards, backing vocals
Dana Schechter – bass guitar, lap steel, vocals
Christopher Pravdica – bass guitar, sounds, keyboards, vocals
Phil Puleo – drums, percussion, vocals

References and photos:
1. Photos: Author’s own
2. Swans Setlist:
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/swans/2023/saint-lukes-glasgow-scotland-73a59ad5.html
3. Michael Gira ‘The Parasite’, live in Bologna, Italy: https://youtu.be/wP_TKgWpEuA
4. Swans at St. Luke’s event listing: https://www.stlukesglasgow.com/events/swans/ 
5. Jarboe event listing: https://www.skiddle.com/whats-on/Newcastle-on-Tyne/The-Lubber-Fiend/Jarboe–Jozef-Van-Wissem/36116061/?hasNewTicketBox=1&reviews=1#recommendedEvents 

R is for…The Rolling Stones! ‘Sticky Fingers’

The start of a new decade…Recorded from March 1969 to October 1970, ‘Sticky Fingers’ was the Stones first studio album of the nineteen seventies, moving them into their second period, leaving behind the sixties, a decade which ended somewhat darkly for the band – the passing of founding member/multi-instrumentalist Brian Jones in mysterious circumstances in July 1969 and the Altamont free concert in California, USA, in December 1969, which was marred by the stabbing of Meredith Hunter and three other deaths. 

The Stones saw out the sixties with some amazing music, the albums ‘Beggar’s Banquet’ and ‘Let It Bleed’ showcasing groundbreaking songwriting and recordings. The song ‘Sympathy For The Devil’ was a milestone, with Jagger channelling a first person historical chronicle from Lucifer himself and the band building an infectious groove as a backdrop, augmented by the infamous ‘wooh wooh’ backing vocals. Subject of a film by Jean-Luc Godard (released in 1970), the studio recording was a challenge by all accounts but resulted in a masterpiece. Singer songwriter Don McLean captured this song being performed at the aforementioned Altamont, as a murder was carried out, in his classic ‘American Pie’:

“as I watched him on the stage, my hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No angel born in Hell, could break that Satan’s spell…” [7.]

Another highlight of this time was the opening track of the ‘Let It Bleed’ LP, ‘Gimme Shelter’, featuring the considerable vocal talents of soul diva Merry Clayton, giving the song the extra feel and power that drives it, transcending from rock into an all-time classic that sends tingles down the spine, right from the first hearing of the opening guitar arpeggios.

As a tribute to Brian Jones’ passing, the Stones played a free concert in Hyde Park in London, England, releasing a sackful of white butterflies as a memorial. It was Mick Taylor’s first gig with the band. Keith Richards waxed lyrical about the new addition: “Everything was there in his playing – the melodic touch, a beautiful sustain and a way of reading a song. He had a lovely sound, very soulful stuff.” [4.]


It’s in the jeans…The Andy Warhol-designed sleeve

With a cover design conceived by icon Andy Warhol, a screenprint of the torso of a male wearing jeans complete with working zip revealing underwear, delivered by his co-collaborators Billy Name and Craig Braun and being the first album released on Rolling Stones records, the band then free of their contract with London and Decca, ‘Sticky Fingers’ symbolised new beginnings in a number of ways. Although guitarist Mick Taylor had played on some of ‘Let It Bleed’, the Stones’ acclaimed final studio album of the sixties, he was now a fully-fledged member of the band, soon to be tax exiles living in France. Rolling Stones Records were to be distributed by Atlantic Records and headed up by Marshall Chess, both strong links to the soul and blues genealogy.

Lips inc. – The iconic Stones’ logo, born in the 70s

Keith Richards described the move to France in philosophical fashion: “In England we were stymied and we suddenly felt the whole weight of this dead empire coming down on us. So the only thing to do was to go away and reconstruct everything and say, “We’re all going to do this boys, we’re going to move out – let’s be a family”. In a way, it was energising…” [5.]

It’s hard to put your (sticky) finger on exactly why this is such a great, long lasting album. It’s a release that covers a number of genres and atmospheres, which could have made it somewhat disjointed, but didn’t. Although the band recorded the music at four different studios over a period of seventeen months, the songwriting, feel and Jimmy Miller’s production somehow bring it all together in a satisfying way for the listener.
Charlie Watts recalled a ‘fantastic week’ at the famous Muscle Shoals Studio in Alabama, where the Stones recorded during a tour of the States: “We cut some great tracks, which appeared on ‘Sticky Fingers’ – ‘You Gotta Move’, ‘Brown Sugar’ and ‘Wild Horses’ – and we did them without Jimmy Miller, which was equally amazing. It worked very well: It’s one of Keith’s things to go in and record while you’re in the middle of a tour and your playing is in good shape.” [5]

“You live in a fancy apartment, off the Boulevard Saint Michel…Where you keep your Rolling Stones records…” [8.]

Against much of the ‘up’ feel of some of the songs, side openers ‘Brown Sugar’ and ‘Bitch’ for example, there is that ‘coming down’ feel on a number of the tracks, heroin and other drug use probably fuelling that. This is personified on ‘Sister Morphine’, co-written by Jagger with his former lover Marianne Faithfull, which introduces a whole family of Class A pharmaceuticals, through the voice of the protagonist, a patient on his death bed in a hospital. Other lyrical references evidence the drug culture: ‘With a head full of snow’, croons Jagger metaphorically on ‘Moonlight Mile’, singing more graphically ‘I’ll be in my basement room, with a needle and a spoon’ in the country tune ‘Dead Flowers’.

Regarding album closer, ‘Moonlight Mile’, Victor Bockris claims that Keith was “so out of it that he didn’t play on the track at all”. Bockris records that “Keith, who had been so angered by Brian’s habit of missing sessions or showing up too stoned to perform, started to do the same thing.” Allegedly, the song was composed by the two Micks, Jagger and Taylor in a late night session, but Taylor was never given credit and the song is listed on the album as  written by Jagger-Richards. Keith was the one who ‘imported’ like-minded musicians, like Bobby Keys and the country singer-songwriter Gram Parsons, who brought his influence to Stones songs like ‘Wild Horses’ and ‘Dead Flowers’ from this album, earlier material such as ‘Country Honk’ (a hoedown version of ‘Honky Tonk Women’) and later material such as ‘Sweet Virginia’ and ‘Faraway Eyes’. 

Side Two – “It’s a bitch…and I’m just about at Moonlight Mile…”

Victor Bockris noted that the ‘Sticky Fingers’ sessions “inaugurated the new period in which the rest of the band would be forced to live on ‘Keith Richards time’.” Andy Johns, recording engineer, recalls that Keith “worked on his own emotional rhythm pattern…If Keith thought it was necessary to spend three hours working on a riff, he’d do it while everyone else picked their nose.” [4.] Bockris paints Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman as a members of the band who rarely took drugs, although noting that Wyman did enjoy imbibing alcohol, noting that they were accordingly “dubbed the straightest rhythm section in rock and roll”, remaining “passively in the background, going about their tasks with extraordinary efficiency, considering the extreme aggravation caused them by the new Keith.” [4.]

The Stones hop genres with ease on the record, segueing from rock to soul, through country, blues and even drifting into jazz territory on ‘Can’t You Hear Me Knocking’, their saxophone-playing pal Bobby Keys stretching out over the band backing groove. Charlie Watts noted that “Sticky Fingers was the first time we added horns – that was the influence of people like Otis Redding and James Brown, and also Delaney and Bonnie, who Bobby Keys and Jim Price played with. It was to add an extra dimension, a different colour, not to make the band sound any different.” [5.]

‘Brown Sugar’ and ‘Wild Horses’ are the two tracks from the album that make it to Stones compilations and probably the ones that are considered classics in their canon, but for me it’s the lesser known pieces that make ‘Sticky Fingers’ special, and there’s something about the downbeat chemistry that unites them in a coherent whole, as unlikely as their sequencing might initially seem. The performance and feel generated by the core band and additional personnel lifts all the songs and has inspired a number of musical subgenres since. Jagger expounds his fake Southern US drawl throughout, an actor mastering our suspension of disbelief – Could you tell he hails from Dartford, Kent, England, listening to this? 

This album was the first in a ‘purple patch’ for studio recordings by this line-up of The Stones in the early 70s, with ‘Exile On Main Street’, ‘Goat’s Head Soup’ and ‘It’s Only Rock’N’Roll’ following in 1972, 1973 and 1974 respectively, after which Mick Taylor quit the band, ushering in a new era. ‘Black And Blue’ got that off to a shaky start in 1976, but Ronnie Wood, ex-Faces guitarist, settled into the band thereafter and they released ‘Some Girls’ in 1978, arguably one of their strongest ever albums. That incarnation of The Stones was constant until 1991, when Bill Wyman left the band. Up to 2005, the band continued to release original music and have been a touring act since. Charlie Watts passed away in 2021 but the four other band members who played on ‘Sticky Fingers’ are still alive and kicking at the time of writing. 

The Stones ‘Sticky Fingers’ line-up: Mick, Keef, Charlie, Mick and Bill

‘Sticky Fingers’
Originally released: 23rd April 1971
Label: Rolling Stones Recorded at: Muscle Shoals Sound (Alabama, USA), Olympic and Trident (London, UK), Stargroves (Newbury, UK)
Produced by: Jimmy Miller
Cover art: Conceived by Andy Warhol, photography by Billy Name, design by Craig Braun

‘Sticky Fingers’ tracklisting (as original LP):

Side One
1. Brown Sugar (Jagger, Richards)
2. Sway (Jagger, Richards)
3. Wild Horses (Jagger, Richards)
4. Can’t You Hear Me Knocking (Jagger, Richards)
5. You Gotta Move (Fred McDowell, Gary Davis)

Side Two
6. Bitch (Jagger, Richards)
7. I Got The Blues (Jagger, Richards)
8. Sister Morphine (Jagger, Richards, Marianne Faithfull)
9. Dead Flowers (Jagger, Richards)
10. Moonlight Mile (Jagger, Richards)

‘Sticky Fingers personnel:
Mick Jagger – lead vocals, backing vocals, guitars, percussion
Keith Richards – guitars, backing vocals
Mick Taylor – guitars
Bill Wyman – bass, electric piano
Charlie Watts – drums

Additional personnel:
Paul Buckmaster – string arrangement (2, 10)
Ry Cooder – slide guitar (8)
Jim Dickinson – piano (3)
Rocky Dijon – congas (4)
Nicky Hopkins – piano (2, 4)
Bobby Keys – tenor saxophone (1, 4, 6, 7)
Jimmy Miller – percussion (4,6)
Jack Nitzsche – piano (8)
Billy Preston – organ (4, 7)
Jim Price – trumpet, piano (7,10)
Ian Stewart – piano (1, 9)

References and photographs:
1. The Rolling Stones ‘Sticky Fingers’ LP and CD (author’s own collection)
2. Norman, P. (2001). ‘The Stones’. London: Pan Macmillan.
3. Bockris, V. (1993). ‘Keith Richards – The Biography’. London: Penguin.
4. Richards, K. (2011). ‘Life’. London: Orion.
5. Jagger, M.; Richards, K.; Watts, C.; Wood, R. (2004). ‘According To The Rolling Stones’. London: Orion.
6. Dalton, D. (Ed.) (1972) ‘Rolling Stones – An unauthorized biography in words, photographs and music’. New York: Amsco. 
7. Don McLean ‘American Pie’
8. Peter Sarstedt ‘Where Do You Go To My Lovely’